i know this thread about 12" brakes has been beaten so bad it has no more life to it . but i am new to this game and need all the help i can get please understand. I am thinking of doing the 12" big brake upgrade from a 87 caprice. i know all the parts i need but i read somewhere that i can use another set of upper arms beside Hotchkis. i believe there made by UB machine and cost about $100.00 a set now if this is true whats there # to call and what part# i would need to order them by? also people that have used them for this how did they perform? Also i read alot about getting crazy bumpsteer from the swap is this true and how do i elinmate this?
12" brake upgrade info needed
- Thread starter monte80
- Start date
anyone else know about these i also read somewhere just cant find it anywhere youre supposed to use the same side or something like thst
Okay-anybody feel free to start a debate about this BUT there is some truth to "you get what you pay for..." and imo it applies to brakes and suspension. I use Hotchkis primarily because they are usually always in stock when I do my b-body spindle swaps-otherwise Global West is the next choice. Yes there are cheaper alternatives-however, I trust a company who makes a product who actually attends and competes in roadcourse challenges vs. one who sits at a computer and via a CAD program makes control arms up at will with no way to evaluate geometry changes. And, this does not even count whether said compnay has actually ever mounted one of their $100 control arms on the vehicle they say it fits. Quick story to back up my opinion: CPP (yes I am calling them out on this one!) makes tubular upper and lower control arms for a 1st gen F-body and they are junk! A customer did not like my quote for building a disc brake front end for his 68 Camaro using Hotchkis arms because the price was too high-he wanted a budget of $1500 for the whole front end. I told him if he absolutely has to have tubular arms with that budget, I would have a hard time finding arms. I never bothered to check the availability of cheaper stuff like that because I stick with what I trust and know works. I found the CPP crap on Ebay from a guy for around $700 for both sides upper and lower. I thought these were pretty freakin cheap so why not, right? Well-after doing the install, the damn kit was missing two grease zerks-a stupid oversight imo, and they had mismatched company ball joints on the uppers (suspicious), found 1 stripped grease zerk hole on one of the lower a-arm bushings and that was fun...(getting stupid now...), then after getting it all assembled, I drove it 10 miles maybe and it began a horendous grinding sound that would not go away-the lower a-arm ball joint pocket was rubbing into the backing plate! It pushed the backing plate into the rotor on both sides and started to grind through! wtf? Stock rated front springs, shocks, etc. but the angle of the lower a-arm was way too high and the bump steer was terrible! When looking at the Hotchkis arms in the same spot, they have a taper that prevents the ball joint pocket from ever doing that and the angle of their arms are slightly different too. They were terrible so beware of cheap suspension parts is my thought. Ever see CPP at a track event? I never heard of them attending. As for the b-body spindle bumpsteer, i've heard a lot about it but I have not experienced it in any of the cars I've built and I don't need the taller lower ball joints or adjustable bump steer eliminators either. I use the heavier rated Cutlass diesel front springs, cut half coil out, and this combined with the b-body spindle drops your IC by almost 3 inches. Combine that with a quick ratio gearbox, fat tires up front, big anti-roll bar and all new front end hardware and good quality arms, you shouldn't have an issue. The whole b-body spindle swap should be looked at as a single step in the process-not the only one. You have to factor in shock choices, wider wheels tires to increase the contact patch to maximize the brakes ability to stop quicker, swap to a quick ratio box to get an instant feel for the road, NEW suspension to keep it all tight! And don't use the crappy Mexico or China tie rod ends, etc. Get the real TRW or MOOG Made in America parts-yeah they're more money but tell the guy at the parts counter to lay out a Chinese tie rod end for $15 and compare it to a MOOG or TRW one for $40...you can see and feel the weight of the differences. Now apply that logic to the entire suspension and braking system...you don't want to go cheap on quality my friend. Don't get me started on overseas crap....I can rant all night-lol!
Although I have no practical experiene with the CPP stuff so I won't comment on them, I couldn't have said it better, gbodystuff!! I have no problem with paying Doug what his asking price is for Global West's parts. IMO they're one of the best & my personal favorite.
Tommy
Tommy
Thanks Tommy! I hate seeing people go the cheap route when in the end, the compromises they make (or try to) always in one way or another end up biting them in the butt. Now, don't get me wrong, being budget minded is not the same as going cheap as far as quality goes. BUT-some parts are clearly not designed for the uses intende. I have friends who are dirt track guys and they will be the first to say don't use dirt track arms on the street. The reason explained to me was that the quality of the steel is not as high meaning weaker arms because the demands on the dirt are in no way as high as that for a street car. Dirt is forgiving, asphalt/concrete is not. And, these cars are gonna get trashed! You think anybody is going to put a lot of money/quality into a control arm and expect a dirt guy to pay a lot of money for something he may have to replace after each race? I don't think so. Same goes for brakes. Will they work? Most likely...BUT, are you willing to take the chance of failure because you wanted to save $300 on your brake install when you have $3000 in paint/body, a $5000 motor, a $1500 transmission, $1000 in wheels/tires, new interior, etc. etc. and you want to go as cheap as possible with brakes and suspension? I'm not flaming anybody here but I just don't want to see somebody get baited into always thinking the cheapest route is the best. My advice? Stay away from dirt track kits...I'm telling ya-the fatique factor of that steel is not up to par with that of the more reputable companies. You gotta pay if you wanna play....sometimes.
i think your talking about the speedway motors control arms. you have to use i think two right sides because the other is a diffrent lenght for the dirt suspention
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