PLEASE READ: Malibu Racing Lives!!

700r4 swap

Questions, answers, help, tips and tech on transmissions.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
MISFITmalibu63
MalibuRacing Junkie
Posts: 7164
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:49 pm
Location: The Sticks... Tewksbury MA
Contact:

700r4 swap

Post by MISFITmalibu63 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:06 pm

so, with all these options floating around, i may be getting dads 355, but i want to toss in a 700r4 behind it. i know i'll have to get a new crossmember, use a TV cable, a geometry correction bracket on the carb, and new throttle bracket. is there anything else? what about lockup vs non lockup? what should i be looking to pickup. the 355 makes about 400hp
Image
1979 Chevy C30 6bt Cummins, NV4500, NP205, 25,000 mile project
1980 Malibu Classic 460 BBC, th-350 3.73 strange S60....10.91 @ 122.62
1982 Malibu Station Wagon, 355, 200-4r, 3.42 8.5, 52,000 mile daily driver
2005 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Extended cab, short bed, 4x4, 8ft plow
BREAK S#1T RACING!

User avatar
Doober
Moderator
Posts: 14702
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 11:15 pm
Location: Catalina, AZ
Contact:

Re: 700r4 swap

Post by Doober » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:40 pm

Personally I prefer lockup, feels like I'm turning unnecessary rpm otherwise. There are some how-tos on the net for a DIY lockup without a computer, I believe there is a temperature, vacuum and 4th gear pressure switch required, along with a relay to disengage lockup when the brakes are applied. I believe a Corvette servo and new boost valve are two of the easiest upgrades, past that and a shift kit you would be tearing it down for clutches, etc. I've also read the sun shell is fragile and if it's a rebuild, a 'beast' shell would be the best to use. If memory serves, you can modify shift points by changing the governer (round cover near the rear) or slowly grind material off the weights until you reach your desired rpm.
Image
MR.com Facebook page
'92 Sierra - EBL/TBI-fed Vortec 383/700R4/3.08
'87 Fiero GT - 2.8/5-speed
'78 Malibu - Vortec 350/4-speed (for now)

User avatar
t5montecarlo
MalibuRacing Junkie
Posts: 4377
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:07 am
Location: Lederach
Contact:

Re: 700r4 swap

Post by t5montecarlo » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:31 pm

Why not a TH200-4R?

User avatar
MISFITmalibu63
MalibuRacing Junkie
Posts: 7164
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:49 pm
Location: The Sticks... Tewksbury MA
Contact:

Re: 700r4 swap

Post by MISFITmalibu63 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:08 am

t5montecarlo wrote:Why not a TH200-4R?


What's the difference and which is the least pain in the butt to swap to? I've never had to deal with overdrives
Image
1979 Chevy C30 6bt Cummins, NV4500, NP205, 25,000 mile project
1980 Malibu Classic 460 BBC, th-350 3.73 strange S60....10.91 @ 122.62
1982 Malibu Station Wagon, 355, 200-4r, 3.42 8.5, 52,000 mile daily driver
2005 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Extended cab, short bed, 4x4, 8ft plow
BREAK S#1T RACING!

User avatar
DOUG213XRJ
MalibuRacing Junkie
Posts: 4642
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:26 pm
Location: West, MI

Re: 700r4 swap

Post by DOUG213XRJ » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:40 am

I also like the lock-up. My 700R4 has a fourth gear pressure switch, so it only locks up in fourth. your stock crossmember can be cut a few inches off the mounting plate to clear the 7000R4 pan. I think I reused the TH350 trans mount. I had to have 2 5/8 inches removed from my stock drive shaft. I have a toggle switch inside the car so I can unlook my converter when/if I need to. I dont have a switch to unlook my converter at 25 30 MPH in fourth gear so some times it like chugs like if you where in a manual trans car going slow in high gear. So I will use the toggle switch to unlock the converter, Or the trans can be manual shifted to third.


Doug
1978 El camino
1981 Malibu SS

melloelky
Top Fueler
Posts: 3571
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:22 pm
Location: mass

Re: 700r4 swap

Post by melloelky » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:11 pm

MISFITmalibu63 wrote:
t5montecarlo wrote:Why not a TH200-4R?


What's the difference and which is the least pain in the butt to swap to? I've never had to deal with overdrives

from what i can recall you can use the cross member you have and the drive shaft too.there is a gain gear ratio wise from 1st to 2nd where the 200 is better the 700 but it escapes me at the moment.
rotisserie-mod
82 el camino
406/200r4

User avatar
SSedan64
Dragway Regular
Posts: 948
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:38 pm
Location: MACON, GA.

Re: 700r4 swap

Post by SSedan64 » Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:17 am

If it's for the 82 Wagon you'll also need the Frame Extension & X-member to run a TH200-4R.
http://www.maliburacing.com/forum/viewt ... 7&t=113023

Driveshaft would be the same length.
The 200-4R has less rpm drop between 1st & 2nd gear.

Trans------ 1st----2nd----3rd----4th Gear
TH200-4R-- 2.74---1.57---1.00---0.67
TH700-R4-- 3.06---1.62---1.00---0.70

User avatar
Doober
Moderator
Posts: 14702
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 11:15 pm
Location: Catalina, AZ
Contact:

Re: 700r4 swap

Post by Doober » Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:43 am

My 4-speed has a somewhat similar spacing to the 2004R, and it's quite nice, definitely better than a 700R4.
Image
MR.com Facebook page
'92 Sierra - EBL/TBI-fed Vortec 383/700R4/3.08
'87 Fiero GT - 2.8/5-speed
'78 Malibu - Vortec 350/4-speed (for now)

User avatar
MISFITmalibu63
MalibuRacing Junkie
Posts: 7164
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:49 pm
Location: The Sticks... Tewksbury MA
Contact:

Re: 700r4 swap

Post by MISFITmalibu63 » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:22 am

would i be able to snag a 200r4 from a GN or is that a different bolt pattern?? would be convenient because im using a GN rear with the 3.42 ratio

time to do some reading ](*,)
Image
1979 Chevy C30 6bt Cummins, NV4500, NP205, 25,000 mile project
1980 Malibu Classic 460 BBC, th-350 3.73 strange S60....10.91 @ 122.62
1982 Malibu Station Wagon, 355, 200-4r, 3.42 8.5, 52,000 mile daily driver
2005 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Extended cab, short bed, 4x4, 8ft plow
BREAK S#1T RACING!

User avatar
DOUG213XRJ
MalibuRacing Junkie
Posts: 4642
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:26 pm
Location: West, MI

Re: 700r4 swap

Post by DOUG213XRJ » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:42 am

With 400hp the 200 4R will need alot of hard parts. My biggest problem with the 200 4R is it shifts out of first gear at about 4200 to 4500 RPM. I called Art Carr about the first gear shift points thinking with a Art Carr transmission I could manual hold it in first and shift in to second at 5500 to 5800 RPM and they told me that even if I hold there trans in first gear its going to shift at 4200 to 4500 anyway. If you chose to go with a 200 4R call Art Carr or Monster transmission with your questions and concerns.

Doug
1978 El camino
1981 Malibu SS

User avatar
Doober
Moderator
Posts: 14702
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 11:15 pm
Location: Catalina, AZ
Contact:

Re: 700r4 swap

Post by Doober » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:47 am

I believe the only difference in a GN trans is servo and valving, I don't think it's anything too major that wouldn't get changed with a rebuild anyway. That's the other thing about 200s, I believe they're more expensive to build up, but if it's going to be in there a while I think it's worth it for closer gear ratios. PATC (these are the guys that make the Raptor 700R4) DOES have a different 1st gearset so first to second isn't such a major drop, but it's pricey. Search for "power gear" on the page.
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/competition.htm
Image
MR.com Facebook page
'92 Sierra - EBL/TBI-fed Vortec 383/700R4/3.08
'87 Fiero GT - 2.8/5-speed
'78 Malibu - Vortec 350/4-speed (for now)

melloelky
Top Fueler
Posts: 3571
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:22 pm
Location: mass

Re: 700r4 swap

Post by melloelky » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:06 pm

MISFITmalibu63 wrote:would i be able to snag a 200r4 from a GN or is that a different bolt pattern?? would be convenient because im using a GN rear with the 3.42 ratio

time to do some reading ](*,)

no sir the 200r4 has two bolt patterns,it's meant to go behind a buick old pontiac or Chevy mill.got one in mine it bolts up just fine.
rotisserie-mod
82 el camino
406/200r4

User avatar
t5montecarlo
MalibuRacing Junkie
Posts: 4377
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:07 am
Location: Lederach
Contact:

Re: 700r4 swap

Post by t5montecarlo » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:09 pm

My 1986 TH200-4R never had the shift-early issue; I hadn't heard of that issue before.

User avatar
Doober
Moderator
Posts: 14702
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 11:15 pm
Location: Catalina, AZ
Contact:

Re: 700r4 swap

Post by Doober » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:17 pm

My dad had an '89 Pontiac Safari wagon (Parisienne, not sure of the difference between the two) that I believe had a 2004R, seemed to shift early. That thing was such a dog to begin with though and we got rid of it before I was out of high school.
Image
MR.com Facebook page
'92 Sierra - EBL/TBI-fed Vortec 383/700R4/3.08
'87 Fiero GT - 2.8/5-speed
'78 Malibu - Vortec 350/4-speed (for now)

User avatar
SSedan64
Dragway Regular
Posts: 948
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:38 pm
Location: MACON, GA.

Re: 700r4 swap

Post by SSedan64 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:55 am

Many of the 2004R from Low Performance vehicles did shift early. The BQ,BR,CQ,CZ,OZ,KZ coded Trans don't.
Some early 2004Rs have only BOP mount pattern.
The CQ,CZ,OZ or KZ coded Trans would be better for a V8, they'll have the highest rpm Auto shifts. BQ/BR code would work well with 3.42 gear, it'll shift around 4700-5000rpm.

BOP Only:
Attachments
buick2 2004R (Small).jpg

Post Reply