Camaro 1LE Caliper Brackets on GBody

[Anonymous]

So I'm doing research on a cheap front end brake upgrade. I'm against swapping A-Arms due to cost and what appears to be questionable geometry of the ball joints on aftermarket arms that I'm not entirely ok with. Also an additional 1/2 inch these add to the track width of the front end would put my tires into somewhat of a confetti like mess if I decided I needed to turn. At least with the current wheel/tire combo (S10 ZQ8 16x8 rims 245/50R16 tires) Finally, a dual piston caliper from the 1LE seems pretty sweet compared with the same old single piston that the B-body spindle route sends you on.

The 1LE front disk package from early nineties Camaros and such used a caliper bracket on the spindle that bolted to the original backing plate holes of the spindle. These spindles had the original caliper mount ears chopped off, and the backing plate holes enlarged.

So the questions are:

Will the 1LE rotors mount onto a regular G body spindle, in regards to bearings, seal clearance, any other issues I am missing?

If they will, can you grab a set of 1LE caliper brackets, and throw them on your G body spindle, and have instant success with some new 1LE calipers?

Are the larger diameter rotors also wider from inner bearing face to wheel mount-- will the track width change?

Basically the more stock this looks, the better. Racing rules need to be tiptoed around, and a red set of tubular A-arms are hardly "stock appearing". Dual piston PBR calipers may be a gray area...

 

[LS6 Tommy]

1LE rotors don't fit a G spindle. That's one of the reasons you need to convert to a B spindle.

Tommy

 

[Anonymous]

Is the spindle/bearing relationship wrong, or is the rotor itself too wide?

Would they be able to fit if larger bearings were installed?

I understand this may have been tried a zillion times by a million people, but I have a tendency to need reasoning other than "it won't work". They don't call GM 'Generic Motors' for nothing.

Thanks for the prompt reply.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

IIRC the B/F body spindle shaft diameter is larger than on the G body. I have absolultey no idea if there are bearings that could take up the slack. Also, if memory serves me correctly, the "hat" on the rotor is taller on the B/F body rotor than on the G body, so the bearings are farther apart on the B/F body rotor than they are on the G body rotor. Even if the bearing issues were solved, the taller hat issue leads me to think that even if you got a B/F rotor onto a G spindle, the rotor will not center correctly in the caliper.

Tommy

 

[malibudave1978]

I have put in some research time on the 1LE brake upgrade because I wanted cheap big brakes without the use of the b-body spindle. Here are the things that I found.

The spindle on a third generation camaro/firebird uses the same 10.5” rotor as the late 1979 to 1988 g-bodies and the 1982 to 2002 S10 trucks (S10 uses the same spindle as g-body). There is a conversion for the third generation camaro/firebird to 1LE brakes using the existing 10.5” spindle that is already on the Camaro. See links below. The thirdgen.org links are from 2001/2002 but the data still should be valid.

http://www.spohn.net/shop/1982-1992-GM-F-Body/Brakes-Accessories/1LE-Front-Brakes-Components/

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/brake-board/59878-1le-brake-questions-answered.html?highlight=1le+brakes

http://www.ws6transam.org/1LEbrake.html

I emailed Spohn to see if this system would bolt up to a g-body spindle. Spohn said it would not because of some interference issue. I tried to find the email they sent me to verify the information, but I must have deleted it.

See below for brake specifications of 3 different vehicles

1987 Camaro/Monte Carlo/S10
RAYBESTOS Part # 5064R Front Rotor {Professional Grade Outside Diameter 10.5" / 5 Bolt Holes}
BCA/NATIONAL Part # A6 Inner Bearing {Cone Length=0.465" Bore=1.25" Outer Diameter=2.328" Width=0.625 Stand Out=0.16" Cup Length=0.465"}
BCA/NATIONAL Part # A34 Outer Bearing {Cone Length=0.475" Bore=0.8437" Outer Diameter=1.781" Width=0.61 Stand Out=0.135" Cup Length=0.475" Cone Radius=1.05"}

1990 Camaro 1LE
RAYBESTOS Part # 5994R Front Rotor{Professional Grade Outside Diameter 11.86" / 5 Bolt Holes #5994}
Performance Package
BCA/NATIONAL Part # A6 Inner Bearing {Cone Length=0.465" Bore=1.25" Outer Diameter=2.328" Width=0.625 Stand Out=0.16" Cup Length=0.465"}
BCA/NATIONAL Part # A3 Outer Bearing {Cone Length=0.55" Bore=0.8437" Outer Diameter=1.9687" Width=0.69 Stand Out=0.14" Cup Length=0.55" Cone Radius=1.046"}

1990 Caprice
RAYBESTOS Part # 5032R Front Rotor{Professional Grade Outside Diameter 11.86" / 5 Bolt Holes}
12" ROTOR DIAMETER
BCA/NATIONAL Part # A6 Inner Bearing {Cone Length=0.465" Bore=1.25" Outer Diameter=2.328" Width=0.625 Stand Out=0.16" Cup Length=0.465"}
BCA/NATIONAL Part # A3 Outer Bearing {Cone Length=0.55" Bore=0.8437" Outer Diameter=1.9687" Width=0.69 Stand Out=0.14" Cup Length=0.55" Cone Radius=1.046"}

From the above information pulled from RockAuto.com, the 1990 Camaro 1LE rotor and the 1990 Caprice rotor are the same diameter. The only difference is the bolt pattern (5 on 4.75 for the Camaro and 5 on 5 for the Caprice).

The 1990 Camaro 1LE and the 1990 Caprice both use the same outer wheels bearings.
The 1990 Camaro 1LE, 1990 Caprice, 1987 Camaro, 1987 Monte Carlo, and 1987 S10 all use the same inner bearing.

Looking closer at the specifications of the outer bearings, there are some simularities between the 10.5’ rotor and the 11.86” rotor. The bore diameter is the same at .8437”. Which suggests that the bearing can be used on the g-body spindle.

From the links posted about third generation camaro/firebirds upgrading their 10.5” brakes to the 1LE brakes could make one confident that the Camaro 1LE rotor or even the Caprice 11.86” rotor will bolt up to the late 1979 to 1988 g-body spindle. But using a 1LE rotor on a g-body spindle should still increase your track width and additional ½ inch.

Bolting up the brake rotors is one thing but getting the caliper mounting brakets and calipers to work with a g-body spindle is another question. I do not know if it has ever been done.

Let me know if I there are descrepancies in what I posted above.

 

[Anonymous]

That helps a lot. Thanks!

I checked the wheel bearings all of the rotors take, and low and behold, the G-body and 1LE Camaros take the same.

The only clearance issue I can think of would be with a small diameter wheel. Unless at extreme turs maybe the caliper hits the A-arm? That would be a very extreme turn, not sure if the car could do that without nosing over.

In Spohn's defense, they have some sweet looking front control arms for a pretty nice price.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

That helps a lot. Thanks!

I checked the wheel bearings all of the rotors take, and low and behold, the G-body and 1LE Camaros take the same.

That's not correct. The inner bearings are the same, the outer bearings are different.

Tommy

 

[malibudave1978]

CannonFodder,

LS6 Tommy is correct.

Inner Bearing is the same.

Outer Bearing IS NOT the same.

Might want to contact EBMiller from thirdgen.org.

He has some brake kits that fit the g-body

He has a website, flynbye.com, that might list what you need without going to the 1LE setup. I believe these will still push your wheels out a 1/4 inch each side.

You can also try Kore3.com. They might have what you are looking for also. They use custom aluminum hubs, but you might be able to get it with the correct offset for the front wheels.

Both of these guys have good products and reviews on the other message boards.

 

[Anonymous]

So looking at rockauto.com I see that the 1LE outer bearing is exactly the same in dimensions save for less than .02" more in width. If my math is correct.

I read PN A3 for outer, A6 for inner. It claims A3 is for performance package, with no specific mention of 1LE.

After the rest of the page loads, the ACDelco bearing PN:S7 shows up. Given the different ways people tighten the castle nut on the spindle, I'm not sure .02" is anything to care about when comparing the bearing dimensions. At least not in this instance. :-k

If I'm wrong here, let me know. Part numbers too, if you have them.

I also checked the bearings on a big spindled Caprice-- they take the same bearings as listed above with no distinction in application. Super huge brakes or otherwise...

Are the 1LE rotors wider overall than a regular 10.5"? Is that why the wheels are pushed out farther?

Since we're on the topic, can anyone tell me what the advantage of a taller spindle is in relation to a taller "problem-solver" ball joint?

 

[LS6 Tommy]

The G-body uses an A34 outer bearing, the B-body & 1LE use an A3 bearing. The inners are the same.

The 1LE rotors do have a taller "hat".

Tommy