no brakes

Steve84EC

Amateur Racer
Aug 29, 2004
273
0
0
Daytona
www.starterupsteve.com
Well, this morning my brakes seemed real soft, now almost no brakes. i think i may have found a small leak near the front left tire...fluid was low. Not real smart about brakes, any certain things i should look for?


also, when car is off two steps on the pedal and its hard like normal, have fluid at correct level and when car is on almost no brakes, master cylinder?
 

355_79bu

Dragway Regular
Dec 13, 2005
1,240
0
0
Cotter, AR
The leak, and if your master cylinder was allowed to run dry, sucked air into the system. Fix the leak, re-fill the master, and bleed the brakes. Here is a article on how to do this:

Bleeding Brakes FAQ and Step-by-Step Instructions

by Dave Zeckhausen

How often should you bleed your brakes?

Manufacturers usually specify that brakes should be bled every two years, starting from the date the vehicle was built. For race cars, it may be necessary to bleed the brakes before each track event and, if the pedal becomes soft during an event, it may even be necessary to bleed between sessions. If you find yourself bleeding the car between sessions, it's time to consider using a brake fluid with a higher boiling point, such as Motul 600 or Castrol SRF.

Why bleed brakes?

Fresh brake fluid has a significantly higher boiling point than old fluid, allowing harder braking without fade. This is because brake fluid is hygroscopic and readily absorbs moisture. The more moisture in the fluid, the lower the boiling point.

That same moisture promotes corrosion. Frequent bleeding with fresh fluid allows brake components to last longer. A well maintained brake system can help you avoid ever having to replace calipers, master cylinder or an expensive ABS control unit.

The bleeding process, done properly, removes air bubbles from the hydraulic system, resulting in firmer brake pedal feel and more linear, responsive braking performance. Too much air in the system can be dangerous and result in the pedal sinking all the way to the floor. Air is compressible, brake fluid is not.

How much brake fluid is required?

It is usually possible to bleed all four corners of the car with somewhere between 1/2 and one liter of brake fluid. If you've just installed new brake lines or a big brake kit, it may require more fluid, especially if you are a novice at bleeding.

Must brakes be bled in a specific order?

Bleeding is done one wheel at a time. The "old timers" will tell you to start with the wheel furthest away from the master cylinder and then work your way closer. Typically, this would mean RR, LR, RF, then LF. However, it doesn't really matter if you start with the front or rear wheels, since they are on separate brake circuits on modern cars with ABS and/or dynamic stability control systems. However, you should start with the passenger side wheel and then do the driver's side.

How are brakes bled?

There are many techniques for bleeding brakes and lots of gadgets to make the job easier. Click here for some examples and my comments on them. For simply replacing old fluid with new, many of these techniques work well. But for removing air bubbles from the system, only one approach works. That is the old fashioned method, which requires an assistant to push on the brake pedal while the mechanic opens and closes the bleed valve on the calipers. This is the only way to generate a sufficient jolt to the brake fluid to knock loose those pesky bubbles and allow them to be flushed away. By following these instructions, you will be more likely to end up with a firm brake pedal, often with better feel than the day your car rolled off the assembly line.




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Safety Warning:

Working on your own car can be dangerous. Even quality jack stands can collapse if not positioned properly, and a floor jack can fail suddenly and without warning. You can be seriously injured or even killed if you do not follow proper safety procedures. Zeckhausen Racing LLC assumes no liability expressed or implied for the improper use of these instructions.


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1)Block a front wheel with a piece of wood to prevent the car from rolling. Raise the back of the car with a floor jack and then lower it onto a pair of jackstands.

2)Remove the rear wheels.

3)Open the brake fluid reservoir and remove as much old brake fluid as possible, using a suction tool or a turkey baster. Be careful not to spill any fluid, as it will dissolve the paint on your car.

4)Fill the brake reservoir to the top with fresh fluid.

5)Place a box end wrench over the bleed screw on the right rear caliper. Push a clear plastic tube over the nipple on the bleed screw and place the opposite end into a catch bottle. Auto parts stores sell nice catch bottles with a cover that prevents fluid from spilling if it tips over, a 1-way check valve in the cap, and a rubber fitting on the caliper end of the plastic line that snaps in place over a wide range of bleed screw nipple sizes.

6)Tell your assistant to pump the brake pedal a few times until it becomes firm. This is especially important if you have just replaced pads. If you've installed new stainless braided brake lines or installed a big brake kit, there may be enough air in the system that the brake pedal will not get firm. That's OK. Just move on to the next step.

7)Tap the caliper a few times with a rubber mallet or "dead-blow" hammer. This helps to knock loose air bubbles that may be clinging to inside surfaces of the caliper.

8)Have your assistant PUSH hard on the brake pedal and HOLD. With a quick motion, open the bleed screw about 1/4 turn. Fluid (and probably a few air bubbles) will flow through the plastic tube and into the catch bottle. A light placed behind the tube will make it easier to see what is coming out of the caliper.

9)Close the bleed screw just before the brake pedal reaches the floor. Don't worry if the timing is off at first. You will quickly figure it out with feedback from your assistant.

10)Tell your assistant to RELEASE.

11)Repeat steps 8 - 10. Do this about 6 times and then go to the front of the car to check the fluid level. You MUST NOT allow the level to fall to the point where you suck air into the master cylinder.

12)Top off the brake fluid level and continue for a total of about 10 pumps or until you no longer see any air bubbles coming out of the caliper.

13)Repeat the process for the other rear caliper.

14)Make sure both calipers are wiped clean of brake fluid and that none has spilled on the rotors or pads. Use brake cleaning spray if necessary. Reinstall the rear wheels and torque to factory specification, then lower car to the ground.

15)Now apply the parking brake, put the car in gear (or PARK) and raise the front of the car with your floor jack. Lower it onto a pair of jackstands.

16)Remove the front wheels.

17)Follow the exact same technique as with the rear wheels, starting with the passenger side caliper. The fluid will flow more rapidly out of the front calipers, so you will need to check the level in the brake fluid reservoir more frequently to avoid letting it drop too low.

18)Reinstall and torque the front wheels, then lower the car to the ground.

19)Top off the brake fluid reservoir and replace the cap.


IF YOU DO NOT FEEL COMFORTABLE DOING THIS YOURSELF, TAKE IT TO A PROFESSIONAL. BRAKES ARE NOT SOMETHING TO MESS WITH. IF YOU DO NOT GET THE JOB DONE RIGHT, YOU CAN KILL YOURSELF, OR SOMEONE ELSE ON THE ROAD!!!!!!!!!!
 

Steve84EC

Amateur Racer
Aug 29, 2004
273
0
0
Daytona
www.starterupsteve.com
been busy today (driving other car lol). I found a wet spot while looking over it, i'm guessing if i have someone pressing on the brakes the leak should be more apparent, right?
 

355_79bu

Dragway Regular
Dec 13, 2005
1,240
0
0
Cotter, AR
It might be helpful. Start at the front and work your way to the back. Check every line, connection, and component of the brake system. At the rear, remove the drums and see if their wet looking inside. If they are you have a bad wheel cylinder.
 

Steve84EC

Amateur Racer
Aug 29, 2004
273
0
0
Daytona
www.starterupsteve.com
well, i had a few drips of fluid (beleive brake fluid) near front left tire. line was a little wet and could see a rip near the top of the brake hose. have hose and everything to replace it, but cannot get the bolts to seperate from the steel line to the hose, any tips on this? could it jsut be rusted on? or am i turning on the wrong thing, lol
 

LS6 Tommy

MalibuRacing Junkie
May 15, 2004
15,847
1
38
North Jersey
Soak them really well with WD 40 or some good penetrating oil & make sure you use quality flare nut wrenches. Regular wrenches may slip & round off the flare nuts. If that happens you're in trouble.

Tommy
 

Doober

Moderator
Jun 2, 2003
14,704
1
38
Catalina, AZ
www.cardomain.com
LS6 Tommy said:
Soak them really well with WD 40 or some good penetrating oil & make sure you use quality flare nut wrenches. Regular wrenches may slip & round off the flare nuts. If that happens you're trouble.

Tommy

X2

Been there, done that :x Wound up using a flippin' pair of Vice Grips to get the stupid thing apart :lol:
 

Steve84EC

Amateur Racer
Aug 29, 2004
273
0
0
Daytona
www.starterupsteve.com
thought about vice grips too...its soaking now, not sure if its going to make a difference or not. and i should be turning it down, right? if i can find my vice grips i might go that route....but atleast i own some flare nut wrenches now lol.

should have taken it to a shop! lol
 

Doober

Moderator
Jun 2, 2003
14,704
1
38
Catalina, AZ
www.cardomain.com
If you're planning on reusing your lines, get some line wrenches. Only reason I had to use Vice Grips was because I'd rounded the nuts on the lines. I wouldn't use the VG if the lines are good, but it sounds like you have a line that needs replacing if you've found a leak someplace besides at the wheel.
 

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