Thanks for the clarifications Kev. On the bar angles, I was referring to the difference between the two relocation styles. I understand about the intersection of the two theoretical planes. By lower and higher I meant that the lift bar type when used with a stock angle UCA will come rearward but must still intersect along the existing upper plane line, and the no hop type with the stock angle LCA will come rearward but still intersect along the existing lower plane line. I wish I could draw it out but I think we're on the same page. In that perfect world we'd all be back-halved with the multiple holed brackets to be able to perfect the geometry. I had heard about obscene horsepower cars actually getting into different physics and geometries. I don't have that problem.