Schwartz Performance is apparently making a G-Body frame, I just saw a post on Pro-Touring.com.
http://www.schwartzperformance.com/
http://www.schwartzperformance.com/
Schwartz Performance frame
- Thread starter Doober
- Start date
that's stout!i took a tour this summer at factory five racing its cool seeing the jigs that make frames on.
Saw his work in person at the Milwaukee Auto Show about a week ago. Met the owner, Jeff Schwartz. Nice guy, but a little misleading. I was very excited to see he now offered a chassis for our cars. Pretty much told me a chassis would be around $9700 for the bu. Didn't really tell me that was a BASE price, and that the rolling chassis (minus wheels/tires) would be north of $17,000.00. Um, Jeff, are you kidding me? That's Art Morrison territory. Have you seen Art Morrison's chassis for the 68-72 A-Body? Look at theirs closely, and all that you get. Seriously, go to Art Morrison's website, and look at the design, craftsmanship, and overall quality of their "GT" chassis for an A-Body. That Runs $17,400.00. Complete. I understand the Schwartz chassis is a giant leap in quality over the stock chassis, but not compared to the Art Morrison chassis. Honestly, I do like the design of the Schwartz chassis, but I'd be a buyer at $9700 for a rolling COMPLETE chassis. Schwartz charges $1600 for powdercoating their frame? I had mine dipped, zinc washed and coated for $495.
I have no doubt Jeff knows his stuff when talking about chassis design for SCCA competition, but maybe take a hint from a successful company like Hyundai, for example. They started out by offering cheap, affordable vehicles, and slowly ramped up production and build quality over the years to compete with larger, more successful companies. Hyundai's build quality is now among the best. And they have built upon that, a following of people who will continue to buy their cars because of the quality, and reputation. Schwartz is alienating themselves by offering a great product at an unattainable price, and limiitng their sales to only the most affluent car owners who want to build an extremely high-end car at a premium price. Start the price a bit lower, sell more of these, and build relationships with a broader demographic over time. I'm sure they would like to sell more of these at a slightly smaller profit, rather than one or two at a higher one.
I have no doubt Jeff knows his stuff when talking about chassis design for SCCA competition, but maybe take a hint from a successful company like Hyundai, for example. They started out by offering cheap, affordable vehicles, and slowly ramped up production and build quality over the years to compete with larger, more successful companies. Hyundai's build quality is now among the best. And they have built upon that, a following of people who will continue to buy their cars because of the quality, and reputation. Schwartz is alienating themselves by offering a great product at an unattainable price, and limiitng their sales to only the most affluent car owners who want to build an extremely high-end car at a premium price. Start the price a bit lower, sell more of these, and build relationships with a broader demographic over time. I'm sure they would like to sell more of these at a slightly smaller profit, rather than one or two at a higher one.
did you see the article in the car craft engine swap magazine. It said how to swap a coyote 5.0L into a 69 mustang. Seemed like a good read untill i realized it was using a swartz chassis. Not really a true swap if you ask me. If i had that kind of money i would just drop my car off at troy treppanier's place. At least he could make a TV show about it! I agree with malicad. I don't really like the looks of the loops that hold the front shocks either but i am glad he is doing these frames, it will be good for our hobby. Just wish it was more affordable.
brian
brian
Well, now that I vented a bit about how much these chassis cost, I found a distributor that may be able to work with me on the price. Didn't want to come off as whiny....just seemed nuts to me. Don't know the $$$ yet, but he's going to email me with some details. If I can get one of these for a deal, it just might be worth it. I'm re-thinking my theory of hanging all modern tubular control arms and coil overs on a 30 year old chassis. I'm thinking it'll handle like poo compared to the Schwartz chassis. even if it's braced to high hell, it's still 1979 technology. I'm thinking of that sweet rack and pinion setup, too! That'd be bad azz for sure! 8)
I do remember you from the Milwaukee show. I didnt mean to be misleading.
To build the 1st chassis for anything it cost's us about $30,000. The hope is we sell more than one.
Some of our competitors wil not sell anything but a complete roller, and if you do buy a little at a time there is a penalty for it. We have one price whether you buy a little at a time or everything.
When comparing us to others, keeping in mind there are no other bolt in G body chassis at this time.
Our chassis include 13" Wilwood brakes front and rear with 6 piston front and 4 piston rear.
A full floater 31 spline 9" rearend. There's a long explanation on why we use a full floater, the short version is the bearing retainers, aka wedding rings come off with the cornering forces we generate, and you lose your brakes due to pad pushback. Yes this does cost more, but is necessary.
Powdercoating is an option that includes blasting and everything coated, rearend housing, a arms, etc. not just the frame. . If you can do it cheaper, we sell it raw for that reason. Not trying to rip anyone off, but most places dont blast it 1st, the oven required is large, i have to transport it back and forth and not every powdercoater can do it.
Last i checked the Company you mentioned doesnt offer a full floater or powdercoating and 2 piston brakes were standard.
The costs of any of us running a business are great, that little 3" ad in hot rodding magazine costs nearly 2 grand a month. Call an insurance company and tell them your are making any performance parts, let alone a complete chassis and they will laugh you out the door. Bottom line, our chassis provide a better value than others, when you consider the parts we include as standard. Call Bull Dawg, an advertiser on this site for the best deal on a Schwartz G Body chassis.
To build the 1st chassis for anything it cost's us about $30,000. The hope is we sell more than one.
Some of our competitors wil not sell anything but a complete roller, and if you do buy a little at a time there is a penalty for it. We have one price whether you buy a little at a time or everything.
When comparing us to others, keeping in mind there are no other bolt in G body chassis at this time.
Our chassis include 13" Wilwood brakes front and rear with 6 piston front and 4 piston rear.
A full floater 31 spline 9" rearend. There's a long explanation on why we use a full floater, the short version is the bearing retainers, aka wedding rings come off with the cornering forces we generate, and you lose your brakes due to pad pushback. Yes this does cost more, but is necessary.
Powdercoating is an option that includes blasting and everything coated, rearend housing, a arms, etc. not just the frame. . If you can do it cheaper, we sell it raw for that reason. Not trying to rip anyone off, but most places dont blast it 1st, the oven required is large, i have to transport it back and forth and not every powdercoater can do it.
Last i checked the Company you mentioned doesnt offer a full floater or powdercoating and 2 piston brakes were standard.
The costs of any of us running a business are great, that little 3" ad in hot rodding magazine costs nearly 2 grand a month. Call an insurance company and tell them your are making any performance parts, let alone a complete chassis and they will laugh you out the door. Bottom line, our chassis provide a better value than others, when you consider the parts we include as standard. Call Bull Dawg, an advertiser on this site for the best deal on a Schwartz G Body chassis.
Glad someone stepped up and makes one now. Hope to be able to get one in the future, but it'll definitely be awhile before I could possibly afford it. I realize that demand is low, costs are high, therefore the price is what it is. You have to make money to be in business, otherwise no-one would've even made a frame yet. Will a stock 8.5" GN rear bolt into your frame, or do you have to use the 9"?
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