Same here, that's what we all were hoping for.
http://www.maliburacing.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=65286&hilit=hydrogen
http://www.maliburacing.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=65286&hilit=hydrogen
water for power?
- Thread starter gbodystuff
- Start date
I've got my technical drawings for building my stainless water fuel cell...I have access to a manufacturing company that can build it to spec but they don't use 307 grade stainless in large supply which is preferreed for this build, so that's my first hurdle. All of my specs are available from several sources for free...mainly the waterfuelcell.org forum, but after that is the electrical part....I need to modify the vehicle computer into leaning out the actual fuel mixture...so for that it will take some trial/error. I have some instructional CD's demonstrating engines running in closed loop, showing how once you convert any organic substance to a near plasma state, it can be used as a fuel source. This took me back to the research of a group of men who about 10 years ago first proposed building a type of trash incinerator in which you could take any organic material and after superheating it and breaking it down to a plasma state, you can use it for fuel with no emissions. This is an answer to the worlds growing landfill problem...convert all the organic waste to energy. Anyhow, the instructional class goes on to explain how while the government says it wants to find a 'clean" energy source, it has been shown how water is the answer but big oil controls the majority of the design patents and through its lobbyists, dis-information seems to be the best policy. The EPA still ignores the testing and confirmation of a proposed catalytic converter design that pretreats the fuel before entering the combustion chamber by fracturing the fuel, isolating elements of the fuel molecules, etc. and creating a high velocity plasma type "gas " that burns with 100% efficiency which yields anywhere from 80-300% fuel economy improvements through dramatically increasing volumetric efficiency to near 100%. Now, add to that the water fuel cell and you achieve an overunity which can yield upwards of 300% + fuel economy. this has already been achieved in various labs around the world...but to get this technology out for the common people require a grass roots effort...so experimentation for now is the best resource.
Here's an update on my water fuel progression. Tonight I did some modifications to the fuel system in preparation for the water fuel cell. Now, I still need to lean out the fuel eventually which I will do initially by swapping out primary and secondary metering rods. I welded an O2 bung in the exhaust for the A/F gauge so I can monitor how the exhaust is responding to changes via the gauge. As per my notes from various sources, I did several things. First, I modified my spark plugs by drilling a 1/16" hole in the ground strap electrode directly over the center electrode-then I carefully bent it to the side and used the same cobalt drill bit to create an "antenna beacon" in the very tip of the AC Delco plug electrode-then bent the ground strap electrode back over, filed the edges and regapped to .052".
Next, I used emission tubing and drilled a small hole in the HEI cap and used silicone to secure it in place and routed it to the air cleaner. This routes "free" ozone (chemical signature O3) directly to the air intake every time an electrical spark is made from the rotor...free oxygen!
Okay, now comes the install of a homemade ionized fuel filter which is made of a forged steel rod inserted in the rubber fuel line-curiously, when fuel passes around and past the steel rod, it becomes magnetized...quite strange but it's one of the weird things that aid in ionizing the fuel molecules. By the way, it is also curious to note that the fuel picks up velocity from the time it completely passes past the inserted "ionizing" rod. along with this mod is a modified fuel filter designed to trap heat to aid in heating the fuel but not to the point of vaporization. I took a plain steel fuel filter and wrapped in in 7 layers of wax paper and aluminum foil-not just wrapping the material around it but 7 distinct layers of each-one after another. There is a scientific researched source of energy called origome sp? that while researching this fuel system mod, it has been stated over and over that it falls into the category of too stupid to believe it would have any effect on the fuel system and that until you try it, you won't understand it. Well, I thought what the hell....I'll try it. I did as instructed and sealed the whole thing with a high temp. clear and mounted the filter bewtween the two heater hoses to aid in heating the fuel but keeping it below the point of vaporization which is 212 degrees. I already have seen nice results from my PCV water mist injection so now it was time for a test drive.
Wow...instant throttle response, off idle acceleration is similar to fuel injection and my A/F ratio was showing slightly rich @ cruising speed. This was after engine had reached operating temperature of 180 and stayed there. At no time did the engine ever act as though it was vapor locking like I was half expecting. No misfires...if anything, it acted as though the octane rating was higher....it was like an old 355 I used to drive in my 78 Monte that ran okay on 91 pump gas, but was completely different (for the better) with 100 octane. So, I plan to swap out metering rods, adjust the accelerator pump shot, possibly design a fuel restrictor inside the fuel inlet. If I can keep leaning the fuel, pull more timing out, building power and increase my mileage-then I know I'e got somethign-then I plan to swap to a 600 cfm Holley that I am currently modifying for lean run conditions after I have reached the lean limits of the Q-Jet. I am working on a solution that will break down the carbon molecule chains in the fuel itself with a combination of Xylene and Acetone-the percentages of which I have yet to work out. Once achieved, I should have a completely broken down the fuel that once it passes the ionization filter, it will burn very clean as though I were running a high octane fuel....and this is where I will have surpassed to an extent my tinkering with a carbed system and need to jump to a TPI OBDI engine management so I can manipulate the factory computer and trick the O2, CTS and MAF sensors into lettign me run upwards of 25:1 A/F and get 60-75 mpg at the same time but with my water fuel cell plumbed as well. I can plumb it into my carbed motor pretty soon but I want to get 35 mpg withthis 350 first, then I'll install the water fuel cell and see if I can get 50 mpg before swapping to TPI. I'll post mpg results on this phase in a week or so after I fill up.
Next, I used emission tubing and drilled a small hole in the HEI cap and used silicone to secure it in place and routed it to the air cleaner. This routes "free" ozone (chemical signature O3) directly to the air intake every time an electrical spark is made from the rotor...free oxygen!
Okay, now comes the install of a homemade ionized fuel filter which is made of a forged steel rod inserted in the rubber fuel line-curiously, when fuel passes around and past the steel rod, it becomes magnetized...quite strange but it's one of the weird things that aid in ionizing the fuel molecules. By the way, it is also curious to note that the fuel picks up velocity from the time it completely passes past the inserted "ionizing" rod. along with this mod is a modified fuel filter designed to trap heat to aid in heating the fuel but not to the point of vaporization. I took a plain steel fuel filter and wrapped in in 7 layers of wax paper and aluminum foil-not just wrapping the material around it but 7 distinct layers of each-one after another. There is a scientific researched source of energy called origome sp? that while researching this fuel system mod, it has been stated over and over that it falls into the category of too stupid to believe it would have any effect on the fuel system and that until you try it, you won't understand it. Well, I thought what the hell....I'll try it. I did as instructed and sealed the whole thing with a high temp. clear and mounted the filter bewtween the two heater hoses to aid in heating the fuel but keeping it below the point of vaporization which is 212 degrees. I already have seen nice results from my PCV water mist injection so now it was time for a test drive.
Wow...instant throttle response, off idle acceleration is similar to fuel injection and my A/F ratio was showing slightly rich @ cruising speed. This was after engine had reached operating temperature of 180 and stayed there. At no time did the engine ever act as though it was vapor locking like I was half expecting. No misfires...if anything, it acted as though the octane rating was higher....it was like an old 355 I used to drive in my 78 Monte that ran okay on 91 pump gas, but was completely different (for the better) with 100 octane. So, I plan to swap out metering rods, adjust the accelerator pump shot, possibly design a fuel restrictor inside the fuel inlet. If I can keep leaning the fuel, pull more timing out, building power and increase my mileage-then I know I'e got somethign-then I plan to swap to a 600 cfm Holley that I am currently modifying for lean run conditions after I have reached the lean limits of the Q-Jet. I am working on a solution that will break down the carbon molecule chains in the fuel itself with a combination of Xylene and Acetone-the percentages of which I have yet to work out. Once achieved, I should have a completely broken down the fuel that once it passes the ionization filter, it will burn very clean as though I were running a high octane fuel....and this is where I will have surpassed to an extent my tinkering with a carbed system and need to jump to a TPI OBDI engine management so I can manipulate the factory computer and trick the O2, CTS and MAF sensors into lettign me run upwards of 25:1 A/F and get 60-75 mpg at the same time but with my water fuel cell plumbed as well. I can plumb it into my carbed motor pretty soon but I want to get 35 mpg withthis 350 first, then I'll install the water fuel cell and see if I can get 50 mpg before swapping to TPI. I'll post mpg results on this phase in a week or so after I fill up.
I've read this whole topic over and i'm quite interested really. Do you plan on basically just filling a reservoir with water and breaking it down as required? How hot do you figure your emissions are going to be to feed your A/F ratio sensor? If you're talking about going straight to just water, aren't you going to have to retard the timing drastically? I know that the hydrogen flame speed is somewhere around 2.8meters/second, where gas is somewhere around 0.86 meters/second. I'll be keeping an eye on this, and i'm impressed by the effort.
Well, the idea is to not run on water soley. moreover to run a combination of hydrogen AND oxygen as it is broken down with a covalizing agent for the gasoline itself and by 'injecting" the two gasses simultaneously into the combustion chamber. Yes, the flame speed is much higher with hydrogen but gasoline somewhat slows it down and while the hydrogen allows for a more intense, complete and faster "burn" rate, the extra oxygen absorbs the excess heat and that controls detonation. Running a rich hydrogen gas mixture is much like running a high octane fuel but since the hydrogens ability to keep a very broad flame rate, it basically takes the risk of detonation out of the equation-all this happens as you lean out the fuel to the tune of 30:1 A/F ratio. See where this process is going? That's why I'm excited about it. All of the true HHO companies and engineers lean to the side of high mileage benefits...well, why not ALSO focus on the performance aspect of the technology? This science is telling us that we SHOULD be able to build a V8 engine capable of 60+ mpg easy while hitting upward sof 500-600 hp and running a compression ratio of up to 13:1...all on pump gas with a 30:1 A/F! On paper it's doable...so I am trying to get my 74 Chevy truck (the most unlikely of vehicle testbeds...but that's why it'll be cool!) setup to run this system along with all the mods I've researched. I just picked up a complete 305 TPI/700R4 89 Formula Firebird for this process. The motor first needs to be checked with respects to cylinder leakdown, etc. to verify it's current condition. I'm pulling all of the cars factory computer, wiring, sensors, etc. and dropping all of it into my 74 Cheyenne. I'm designing a junction box of sorts inside the cab...most likely in my console in which all of the appropraite sensor wiring will come into at one side and on the opposite side will be the leads for that respective circuit to the factory ECM. From here I can change the resistance value for the sensor and I can "tell" the computer "okay, 02 sensor will always read 1.5K ohms" or whatever it needs to be so that the computer won't trip the check engine light and revert back to a preprogrammed ignition/fuel map. Rememeber, the OBD1 computers are not re-writable so I need to tell it what it already wants to see in the form of as hard wired resistor so that it will run as usual while I move on to the water assist fuel cell mods. From there, i am free to do a lot of the other things that will aid in gaining big MPG gains like swapping to smaller injectors as the fuel leans out, using relays to shut the fuel injector signals off on deceleration only, etc. Above all, the O2 sensor i have found is the single biggest contributor to how the computer dictates the engine will run. Coolant temp, air charge temp and vehicle speed being the others in that order. Can you imagine what the computer will think if we try to run as lean as 30:1? It will fatten your mixture so much that the motor will not run at all. That's why we have to "tell" the computer what it wants to see in the form of hard wired resistors so we can move on to the good stuff. Did you also know that (at least) all GM vehicles allow a 15% amount of what I like to call wiggle room where you can increase the efficiency of the engine by that much before the ECM reverts to a preprogrammed fuel map? Yep, that means you can only go so far before you reach the outside of the parameteror values set by GM as to what they feel is the ideal runnign condition for your engine...then bing, your check engine light comes on. This is why we have to tell the ECM what it already wants to see. you guys see other companies using this loophole for performance already...Bully Dog, Hypertech, etc.-they all basically "tell" the factory ECM what it wants to see while they adjust fuel, timing, etc. and then magically you see better performance gains and better economy...no big secret, they just know how the system works....if you can tell the factory computer what it wants to see, you are now free to make your own changes, internal or external. And here's another kicker: as per the Magnuson-Moss act of 1996, unless the manufacturer can prove any mod has caused the engine to respond adversely (ie runs worse, less economy, drop in power, etc.)to the factory conditions, it won't void your new car warranty! I'm taking small easy steps with an OBD1 system, next I will try this on an OBD11 car and see what happens. I work in manufacturing and I am working with a friend on a water fuel cell system that will incorporate a low water sensor (think of the sensor used to remind you of a low washer fluid level...) and right now I am researching the proper gauges to read volume and pressure of gases for use in a custom cluster. I'm also toying with ways to collect the water condensation from the drier as you run the AC and have it act as an auto-refill for the water fuel cell but since it needs to be sealed, finding ways to add water automatically is proving difficult..on paper at least. I see the future of power not as electric, not soley hydrogen, but as a mixture of all three....using electricity to use hydrogen safely with a fraction of the amount of gasoline. I'll say it here...water power is the future. I break it all down like this...at least in my thinking: gasoline of air atomized, compressed and ignited is what makles power...basically a controlled explosion, right? Okay, control the explosion and you control the outcome, right? What's the biggest explosion (man-made of course) seen on the face of the Earth? Answer-the Russians detonated a single Hydrogen bomb in the ocean during their thermonuclear testing in the 1960's equivalent to over 1000 Hiroshima bombs. What's the largest energy spource in our solar system? Answer-the Sun, which is 85% Hydrogen, roughly 10% helium and a few other trace elements. See a pattern here? What cover almost 70% of this planet? Water. What is it's properties? Two atoms of Hydrogen and 1 atom of Oxygen per molecule...H2O....I'm telling ya, this is not a coincidence. The term overunity (do a search on Stanley A. Meyers) is the process of getting more energy out than was required to put in. Scientists in general say it is not possible. However, they also thought the world was flat and that the sun revolved around the earth. To break from popular opinion will always bring more skeptics than supporters until something is proven. But that's the evolution of science. But lastly, if Hydrogen technolgy as it relates to water power was so ridiculous, then why are over 70% of the patents applied for and owned are done by the oil companies over the last 60 years? They know the next energy frontier...but I digress. I'm anxious to get the TPI motor installed and get my fuel covalizer mixed. I bought a 5-gallon container of both Xylene and Acetone. I'll try a 50/50 mix and see how the gasoline responds then work it to a 60/40, 70/30, 80/20, 90/10 then start again at 50/50 and work backwards with the two chemicals and see how the fuel responds again....then I should be able to dial in the mixture needed to successfully break the fuel covalent bonds. I'm shooting for a mix that will allow me to add it to the tank as a 10:1 state, where 1 ounce will treat 10 gallons of gasoline. This will create a more intense, higher octane gaseous mixture of gasoline.
peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Bob_Boyce_Electrolyzer_Plans - 63k - Cached
Everybody who has an interest or espescially any doubt as to the impact water power has on engine operation should watch this entire video! Bob Boyce is a true pioneer in this field and imo should be regarding as one of the most important scientists of our century with regards to what he has uncovered. His water cell is what I am building right now...I have a CAD program for cutting the 1" plexiglass case he talks about and the 316 grade stainless is on order...a 4x8 sheet of it. I plan to have my 6" x 6" square plates laser cut on our CNC machine. The key to his success lies with his design of his VIC or what is known as a voltage intensifier circuit....building a lot of gas to run an engine requires using a pulsing waveform which uses AC voltage up to 240 volts from a 12 volt source using a modified version of a toroid transformer. I guarantee this kind of info will keep you awake thinking about the performance possibilities...it does me. Enjoy!
Everybody who has an interest or espescially any doubt as to the impact water power has on engine operation should watch this entire video! Bob Boyce is a true pioneer in this field and imo should be regarding as one of the most important scientists of our century with regards to what he has uncovered. His water cell is what I am building right now...I have a CAD program for cutting the 1" plexiglass case he talks about and the 316 grade stainless is on order...a 4x8 sheet of it. I plan to have my 6" x 6" square plates laser cut on our CNC machine. The key to his success lies with his design of his VIC or what is known as a voltage intensifier circuit....building a lot of gas to run an engine requires using a pulsing waveform which uses AC voltage up to 240 volts from a 12 volt source using a modified version of a toroid transformer. I guarantee this kind of info will keep you awake thinking about the performance possibilities...it does me. Enjoy!
Water for power update: After gleening some pretty useful info from a patent description using multiple water stages in a supercharged diesel on a large ship (35,000 hp!) I seen how some of it can be used on a turbo application. This weekend I am installing a water mist injection kit of mine on an '05 VW GTI turbo special edition and on a '85 GP with a complete 1980 Monte Carlo blow-thru carbed 3.8-all stock. The VW has an intercooler, the GP does not. One of the biggest issues is that when air is compressed it builds heat and that is not ideal for a forced induction charge. So my plan is to introduce a water mist by plumbing a fitting in the exhaust about a foot down from the exhaust housing and route it to a water bubbler. From there, a tube will route to a fitting just before the compressor housing. The idea behind this is to build power while keeping detonation in check. Water expands @ 6x what air does all things being equal so under compression it will provide considerable boost and it will lower the combustion chamber temps at the same time. Using some of the exhaust gas for velocity, it acts as an automatic "power adder" all throughout the RMP range...on demand so to speak. I am specifically looking at how adding water will affect timing under WOT and its cooling effect on forced induction designs. I'm working at building a CAD program for the water mist bubbler so it can be made out of an insulated stainless container with fittings. Next I have plans to add one to a customers 66 Chevelle which has a Titan plate system capable of using jets to provide up to a 750 shot of NOS...pretty serious. It'll be interesting seeing how a nitrous motor responds to a water mist.
I'll take before/after pics on the GP....the VW has real tight underhood clearance so hopefully I'll get it mounted and test drive it. The GP was on Ebay about 3 months ago...it was grey/white with grey bucket seat interior with a TA bulge on the hood. The guy is a friend of mine. He didn't even get a bid on it-too bad because I've driven the car and it is a blast! Not super fast but handles very nice.
not sure what the "bubbler" is for. But everything else you described has been in use for along time in the turbo world. Water injection is nothing new, there's quite a few aftermarket companies that sell kits. Mr. freeze makes one like your describing introducing it into the compressor housing, haven't heard too many good things about it. From what i've read it's way more efficient to inject it just before the throttle body/carb. Don't ask me why, I don't know.
I want to see you get back to the silly talk stuff where you were saying you could get a motor to run @50:1 afr or something crazy like that.
I want to see you get back to the silly talk stuff where you were saying you could get a motor to run @50:1 afr or something crazy like that.
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