anyone run these?I'm interested to see how much they actually lower the car.I've been looking @ running the sc&c stage one and maybe correcting the rest of the completely backwards geometry with the lower bj upgrade but i don't know how much it really lowers the car.
taller lower ball joints anyone?
- Thread starter melloelky
- Start date
A taller lower ball joint won't improve the geometry. Lowering the car won't, either... Marcus at SC&C knows what he's doing. I'd go with his recommendation if you're thinking about their suspension parts.
Tommy
Tommy
the taller lower bj will move the spindle/tie rod to reduce the bump steer.i know lowering isn't changing it,my question asked because i DON'T want to lower the car.from talking to Marcus at SC&C the stage two with the taller lowers is even better than the stage one which is just the upper package.and yes very knowledgeable.
That's not correct. Bump steer will be the same or worse but no better with taller lower ball joints, because the spindle does NOT actually move. The lower A arm does, but not where it would improve a G body's bump steer. It moves the outside end by the ball joint toward the ground and it will also decrease your ride height. To improve the stock bump steer you need to lower the outer tie rod end to make it have the closer to the same angle as the lower A arm. By using a taller lower ball joint the lower A arm will now be at an even worse angle to the tie rod than it was stock.
I think Marcus was probably telling you to use taller UPPER ball joints. That increases the camber curve, but still does nothing for the bump steer.
What are you planning that the bump steer is of such a huge concern? A $175.00 Baer Tracker kit will improve the stock bump steer all by itself.
Tommy
I think Marcus was probably telling you to use taller UPPER ball joints. That increases the camber curve, but still does nothing for the bump steer.
What are you planning that the bump steer is of such a huge concern? A $175.00 Baer Tracker kit will improve the stock bump steer all by itself.
Tommy
hmm.. :-s he did make it clear that the use of said upper package with tallers would do what you are saying.from talking with them i was under the impression that with the use of said uppers w/taller bj's and the use of taller lowers it would by changing the pick up point of the tie rod.here's an email from him "This package leaves no stone unturned and finally gets us where we wanted to be all along as far and proper performance oriented negative camber gain in bump, a really stable roll center at just the right height and virtually no remaining bump steer." so this is why i was under the impression that the use of taller lowers would reduce bump steer.i certainly don't know much about the front end workings but i started looking into this because i upgraded all the rear suspension on my car.from what i understand these cars have a fair amount of bump steer in stock form.i haven't driven this car in 15 years and where I've been putting it back together slowly I've been looking around @different things.i was unaware that you need to lower the outer tie rod end to make it have the closer to the same angle as the lower A arm to decrease bump steer.. i thought the idea was to change the arc by having it with of an less angle.what your saying now makes sense i just looked at nillabu's front end post with his front end working.
If Marcus says using both tall upper and lower ball joints reduces bump steer, I'm not going to argue with him. He's far more knowledgeable in suspension geometry than I. now I'm curious. I'm gonna look at his site. That's a Stage 1 package your referring to?
Tommy
Tommy
i was under the impression via his email that by upgrading FROM stage one that consisted of adjustable upper arms and taller uppers,the UPGRADE to stage two that included the taller lower bj's is what would make the headway in the bump steer dept.that was the impression i got from his wording which i quoted in my last post.like i said I'm not a savy front end guy so i am not saying who's rite and who isn't.just throwing it out there to see what my malibu racing family thinks.by all means Tommy let me know your findings.
I read the website info. I still don't know how lowering the outside end of the lower A-arm will reduce bump steer, but like I said, Marcus knows a lot more than I do.
Tommy
Tommy
We use tall lower ball joints in the Green Machine to add 1/2" additional spindle height and lower the front 1/2". This is combined with 1/2" taller uppers. It just so happens we are testing new a-arm configurations as we speak (flat upper, similar to our 4056-3 Pro Touring A-body upper) along with 1" taller upper ball joints.
It is commonly accepted that tall lower ball joints improve bump steer in A-body cars by changing the steering arm relationship vs the lower arm pivots. This all changes even more when we add caster because the steering arm is tilted upwards. The only way to know for sure is to do testing. We haven't done any bumpsteer plotting on the G-body yet but plan to over the winter as we move toward phase 2 of the Green Machine's auto-x and road race plan. We will check the bump steer with factory ball joints and 1 deg caster, then perhaps tall ball joint lowers and six degrees caster. Then we'll most likely fix whatever is incorrect and publish the results.
ramey
It is commonly accepted that tall lower ball joints improve bump steer in A-body cars by changing the steering arm relationship vs the lower arm pivots. This all changes even more when we add caster because the steering arm is tilted upwards. The only way to know for sure is to do testing. We haven't done any bumpsteer plotting on the G-body yet but plan to over the winter as we move toward phase 2 of the Green Machine's auto-x and road race plan. We will check the bump steer with factory ball joints and 1 deg caster, then perhaps tall ball joint lowers and six degrees caster. Then we'll most likely fix whatever is incorrect and publish the results.
ramey
Not to argue, but A body and G body spindles & linkage mounting points are very different, although similar. I don't know if the same changes will have the same effect in both.
Tommy
Tommy
