You may as well go with the one that works and uses all the stock lines. Steel Concepts, $188 shipped is what I paid with the firewall plate, new Wilwood master cylinder, and pedal pushrod ready to bolt in.
The only other guy I saw selling the kit apparently screwed some people. The Steel Concepts stuff looks to be pretty good. I plan on getting one eventually
Talked to several Malibu / Monte Carlo guys at the race track this weekend and they ALL were using the power brake master cylinder with absolutely no problems.
In fact two of the installations I did not like because they just used the two top holes to mount the m/c and this increased the angle on the brake pushrod...........but they had absolutely no problems stopping or high pedal pressure, etc etc.
they were disk front and drum rear, ford 9 inch on the back.
In fact two of the installations I did not like because they just used the two top holes to mount the m/c and this increased the angle on the brake pushrod...........but they had absolutely no problems stopping or high pedal pressure, etc etc.
they were disk front and drum rear, ford 9 inch on the back.
Sandy said:
Actually the factory manual brake cars like mine use the top two holes for mounting the master cylinder along with moving the pushrod to the upper hole in the pedal.
I was gonna order the Steel Concepts kit till I did some measuring and calculating and I do not feel it is engineered correctly (it does look to me machined very well though). All the brake manufacturers I have checked into recommend a minimum of a 6 to 1 pedal ratio. The stock manual brake master cylinder/pedal/pushrod location gives this correct ratio. Using the S/C kit lowers the master cylinder and pushrod location which lowers the pedal ratio below the recommended 6 to 1...something like 3 or 4 to 1 at most.
While the level master cylinder mount would be nice looking, it's more important to me to have the correct pedal ratio for proper brake pressure & feel.
Like I said before, my car is a factory manual brake car and the stopping performance is very good now with a decent set of Wilwood "race" pads. I am considering a set of Strange race discs on all 4 corners next winter, but will likely stick with the stock mounting position of the master cylinder as well as the stock pedal pushrod location to keep the correct 6 to 1 ratio.
Thanks 10secBu for your post.
While I am in the process of doing just about everything else, the brake stuff is finally becoming crystal clear.
Targetting the end of June now for car completion.
While I am in the process of doing just about everything else, the brake stuff is finally becoming crystal clear.
Targetting the end of June now for car completion.
Not True!
There is 1 hole and 1 pin on the brake pedal.
The factory manual brake master cylinder rod is mounted higher on the brake pedal in the factor hole.
Then the power brake master cylinder rod is mounted on the pin on the brake pedal.
The kit I sell has a better pedal ratio than the factory manual brake master cylinder.
The bolt in the top of the brake pedal where it mounts to the car is a pivot point, my master cylinder rod is actually mounted below the stock hole for the stock manual brake master cylinder rod which gives you more than 6 to 1 pedal ratio.
If anyone has questions please call Travis @ Steel Concepts Fabrication
816-536-3216
There is 1 hole and 1 pin on the brake pedal.
The factory manual brake master cylinder rod is mounted higher on the brake pedal in the factor hole.
Then the power brake master cylinder rod is mounted on the pin on the brake pedal.
The kit I sell has a better pedal ratio than the factory manual brake master cylinder.
The bolt in the top of the brake pedal where it mounts to the car is a pivot point, my master cylinder rod is actually mounted below the stock hole for the stock manual brake master cylinder rod which gives you more than 6 to 1 pedal ratio.
If anyone has questions please call Travis @ Steel Concepts Fabrication
816-536-3216
I've got a stock brake pedal sitting right here.
Length from the pedal pivot to the middle of the brake pad is 13 1/2"
Length from the pedal pivot to the factory power pushrod location is 3 7/8"
Length from the pedal pivot to the factory manual pushrod location is 2 3/16".
13.5 divided by 3.875" = 3.48 to 1 power pedal ratio
13.5 divided by 2.1875 = 6.17 to 1 facory manual pedal ratio
Now, by the pictures I saw, the Steel Concepts is close to center of the factory manual and power hole locations...which would be approx 3".
13.5 divided by 3 = 4.5 pedal ratio for the Steel Concepts kit.
Is my math wrong here? Am I missing something?
Don't get me wrong, the kit looks great, I just want to make sure it's properly designed in terms of pedal ratio for proper pressure at the calipers.
I mean no disrespect to Travis, rather just some clarification to the pedal ratio as the kit is designed.
Length from the pedal pivot to the middle of the brake pad is 13 1/2"
Length from the pedal pivot to the factory power pushrod location is 3 7/8"
Length from the pedal pivot to the factory manual pushrod location is 2 3/16".
13.5 divided by 3.875" = 3.48 to 1 power pedal ratio
13.5 divided by 2.1875 = 6.17 to 1 facory manual pedal ratio
Now, by the pictures I saw, the Steel Concepts is close to center of the factory manual and power hole locations...which would be approx 3".
13.5 divided by 3 = 4.5 pedal ratio for the Steel Concepts kit.
Is my math wrong here? Am I missing something?
Don't get me wrong, the kit looks great, I just want to make sure it's properly designed in terms of pedal ratio for proper pressure at the calipers.
I mean no disrespect to Travis, rather just some clarification to the pedal ratio as the kit is designed.
10secBu said:
The hole thing started when you said that the kit wasnt designed correctly.
The pedal ratio is important but you are trying to say that a 1/2" lower than stock is going to be the difference in stopping or not. If you put the rod in the stock location you will have to push the pedal towards the floor further than if you lower the rod to where I have it set at. When you push the pedal with my kit installed the pedal moves about 3" and your stopped. If you want to figure ratio on brake pedals you can do that, But I dont want you bashing my product because you think it is engineered wrong. I installed one 80bu car and tested the brakes several times and no problems.
Pedal ratio may come out as slightly less, but I think the much larger bore size of the Wilwood will more than make up for pressure variances. IMO, the factory manual brake setup felt a bit soft, almost touchy, yet the fact that people are attempting to use power masters in a manual setup boggles my mind.
It really is a minute difference, and one that I feel is negligable in this setup, especially when designed to use the stock lines/caliper/drum setup. I don't anticipate having to use excessive force to get the necessary pressure to stop the car.
It really is a minute difference, and one that I feel is negligable in this setup, especially when designed to use the stock lines/caliper/drum setup. I don't anticipate having to use excessive force to get the necessary pressure to stop the car.
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