79blackmalibu said:
Yeah they drag race audis all the time. I love people like you. Why don't you read the whole post before looking stupid.
Turbo or Supercharger?
- Thread starter MyBU
- Start date
Yeah they drag race audis all the time. I love people like you. Why don't you read the whole post before looking stupid.
I don't know alot about turbos,but I have a few friends that run them.they talk about "turbo lag". In thier applications it doesn't slow them down a bit.They run mid 6 ETs they also have a ton of cash and the knowlege of turbos .
Like you say people say bad things about turbos but weather they are educated on them is another question.
I'm not going to get in a debate about turbos because I don't know enough about them but I do know that if (my bu)?I think that was his name.Is looking to build a 500 horse engine on a small budget he should seriosly concider a big block.I priced out a big horse small block for over a year,and I ended up building a 550 horse big block for almost half the cost as a small block and it has no power adders on it at all.So now if I want more power I don't have to mess with the bottom end. just add a bigger cam,bigger heads,NOS ETC and i'm there.
Like you say people say bad things about turbos but weather they are educated on them is another question.
I'm not going to get in a debate about turbos because I don't know enough about them but I do know that if (my bu)?I think that was his name.Is looking to build a 500 horse engine on a small budget he should seriosly concider a big block.I priced out a big horse small block for over a year,and I ended up building a 550 horse big block for almost half the cost as a small block and it has no power adders on it at all.So now if I want more power I don't have to mess with the bottom end. just add a bigger cam,bigger heads,NOS ETC and i'm there.
Yeah dude! I DID READ THE WHOLE THREAD!!!!!
Dont go and write something totally ridiculous and not expect to get called out!!!
And yeah,WE DO DRAG RACE AUDIS!!! I LOVE YOU TOO!!!
And by the way just to give you some specs,the car runs mid 12s,weights in at 3900 lbs,and can do 300 kph. Oh and is street driven all year round (winter also -30 deg cel,snow,ice-you name it!!!) every day,can get 25 mpg when driven normally.
And thats a very very mild setup-there are others around here that are running 10s.
Did I mention that the cars are set up for road courses? And they stop on a dime?
Dude,like I said,this isnt about whats better or worse,just dont go saying stuff thats total BS.
Dont go and write something totally ridiculous and not expect to get called out!!!
And yeah,WE DO DRAG RACE AUDIS!!! I LOVE YOU TOO!!!
And by the way just to give you some specs,the car runs mid 12s,weights in at 3900 lbs,and can do 300 kph. Oh and is street driven all year round (winter also -30 deg cel,snow,ice-you name it!!!) every day,can get 25 mpg when driven normally.
And thats a very very mild setup-there are others around here that are running 10s.
Did I mention that the cars are set up for road courses? And they stop on a dime?
Dude,like I said,this isnt about whats better or worse,just dont go saying stuff thats total BS.
Yeah I'm wrong and your right mr 2nd post. Why don't you go let the clutch out at idle, step on the gas and let me know how long it takes to get moving. Thats why you pay people like me to do your work. Have a nice day.
79blackmalibu said:
Specs on the turbo? How much boost?
You can build boost INSTANTLY and maintain and/or continue to build boost all the way to 6800rpm?
Sounds like you have a BLOWER....
Here are the specs for the car-
2002 AUDI S4 (B5 platform),6 speed man gearbox,all wheel drive,2.7 liter V6 TT
RS4 KO4 turbos (sorry,dont have full specs),RS4 intercoolers,gutted down pipes,full custom fabbed 2.5 inch dual exhaust,lightweight alu flywheel,RS4 press plate and disc,lightweight pulley set,elec fan conversion,silicone hose set.
There is more but I forgot-and we are still waiting to install bigger injectors and fuel pump and then remap the ecu then some more tuning.
Boost depends on the controller and ecu-usually between 17-20 psi.
ECU regulated boost by changing timing ( spark and valves ) and wastegates,mainly.
1st gear is really short too,so that helps a bunch.
Yes it almost feels like a blower! There is NO "LAG" !
2002 AUDI S4 (B5 platform),6 speed man gearbox,all wheel drive,2.7 liter V6 TT
RS4 KO4 turbos (sorry,dont have full specs),RS4 intercoolers,gutted down pipes,full custom fabbed 2.5 inch dual exhaust,lightweight alu flywheel,RS4 press plate and disc,lightweight pulley set,elec fan conversion,silicone hose set.
There is more but I forgot-and we are still waiting to install bigger injectors and fuel pump and then remap the ecu then some more tuning.
Boost depends on the controller and ecu-usually between 17-20 psi.
ECU regulated boost by changing timing ( spark and valves ) and wastegates,mainly.
1st gear is really short too,so that helps a bunch.
Yes it almost feels like a blower! There is NO "LAG" !
I've got a big roots blower, but i love turbos. Really it comes down to what you want. I race with guys that run everything. Nitrous, single/dual turbos, centrifugal chargers, and roots chargers. Roots is easy. Not much more to do than an intake swap. Turbos are harder to package with all of the tubing, but they make some killer power.
Each has highs and lows. Any boost builds heat, and any engine needs to get rid of that heat. Roots sucks for this on a daily driven type of application. I don't have to worry about it though because i run alky.
Centrifugal makes the same amount of heat, but you can package an air/air or air/water intercooler very easily.
Both superchargers cost some HP to turn them. a fully prepped top fuel supercharger, for example, takes more than 350 horsepower to turn at 9,000 rpm... so we're not talking small beans here.
Turbo makes the most heat since it's run by 1300+ degree exhaust, and even though it's not entirely "free" power, it takes a damn sight less power to turn than my 14-71. Same as the centrifugal though, easy to run an intercooler, but harder to package the exhaust (and not burn through plug wires all the time)
Another consideration is exhaust. Forced induction engines have no issue getting air in, but its harder for it to keep up on the "out" side. Plugging your exhaust with a turbo further disrupts this. With a blower, you reap the benefits of smooth bend headers and exhaust to move your extra air out.
Each has highs and lows. Any boost builds heat, and any engine needs to get rid of that heat. Roots sucks for this on a daily driven type of application. I don't have to worry about it though because i run alky.
Centrifugal makes the same amount of heat, but you can package an air/air or air/water intercooler very easily.
Both superchargers cost some HP to turn them. a fully prepped top fuel supercharger, for example, takes more than 350 horsepower to turn at 9,000 rpm... so we're not talking small beans here.
Turbo makes the most heat since it's run by 1300+ degree exhaust, and even though it's not entirely "free" power, it takes a damn sight less power to turn than my 14-71. Same as the centrifugal though, easy to run an intercooler, but harder to package the exhaust (and not burn through plug wires all the time)
Another consideration is exhaust. Forced induction engines have no issue getting air in, but its harder for it to keep up on the "out" side. Plugging your exhaust with a turbo further disrupts this. With a blower, you reap the benefits of smooth bend headers and exhaust to move your extra air out.
Re:
You actually get paid to work on cars?? I see the bigtime website but I have a hard time believing anybody that post crap as ignorant as you can be capable of anything in those pics. Sounds like you have no clue how to make a turbo combo work so it's good that you stick to blowers.
Different cars require different driving styles. I drive and tune both turbo cars and procharged cars. After driving both power adder types, I'll take the turbo car over anything.
There's only 1 circumstance that I pick a blower. If I had a 600ci motor and could not run twin's, blower it is.
Bigtime said:
You actually get paid to work on cars?? I see the bigtime website but I have a hard time believing anybody that post crap as ignorant as you can be capable of anything in those pics. Sounds like you have no clue how to make a turbo combo work so it's good that you stick to blowers.
Different cars require different driving styles. I drive and tune both turbo cars and procharged cars. After driving both power adder types, I'll take the turbo car over anything.
There's only 1 circumstance that I pick a blower. If I had a 600ci motor and could not run twin's, blower it is.
Wow this was a fun thread to read! So much mine is better, no mine is mine is...
There is no perfect power adder for the most part. I hate Nitrous but it would be the best cause when your not using it nothing can happen with it. Then again when you do use it you better light it up over 3500rpm or your gonna break stuff.
Centrifugal superchargers don't make anything down low either. Like a turbo they need rpm to make boost. Roots blowers make boost right away and then make tons more heat the higher you spin em. Especially the smaller blowers cause we used to get the headers to glow so bright on the dyno with em it wasn't funny!
Sure Turbo's make back pressure but they use all that heat energy that your throwing out your exhaust. Then turn it into boost. Wow it doesn't make torque from idle but anything that make power that low ain't going to make anything up top. There is no free lunch cause if there was all the manufacturers would be putting it on the cars in the first place!
As far as power adders go my first choice would be a Turbo cause I loved my GN and WRX. When out of the throttle they are great on gas and docile. In boost they are set on kill, it's the best of both worlds situation to me!
Oh and this is one of those back pressure WRX's that is driven on the streets and will stomp most Malibu's I know race or not?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL9mKauGEVo
There is no perfect power adder for the most part. I hate Nitrous but it would be the best cause when your not using it nothing can happen with it. Then again when you do use it you better light it up over 3500rpm or your gonna break stuff.
Centrifugal superchargers don't make anything down low either. Like a turbo they need rpm to make boost. Roots blowers make boost right away and then make tons more heat the higher you spin em. Especially the smaller blowers cause we used to get the headers to glow so bright on the dyno with em it wasn't funny!
Sure Turbo's make back pressure but they use all that heat energy that your throwing out your exhaust. Then turn it into boost. Wow it doesn't make torque from idle but anything that make power that low ain't going to make anything up top. There is no free lunch cause if there was all the manufacturers would be putting it on the cars in the first place!
As far as power adders go my first choice would be a Turbo cause I loved my GN and WRX. When out of the throttle they are great on gas and docile. In boost they are set on kill, it's the best of both worlds situation to me!
Oh and this is one of those back pressure WRX's that is driven on the streets and will stomp most Malibu's I know race or not?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL9mKauGEVo
