Turbo or Supercharger?

[basketcase]

Re: Re:

Yeah I'm wrong and your right mr 2nd post. Why don't you go let the clutch out at idle, step on the gas and let me know how long it takes to get moving. Thats why you pay people like me to do your work. Have a nice day.

You actually get paid to work on cars?? I see the bigtime website but I have a hard time believing anybody that post crap as ignorant as you can be capable of anything in those pics. Sounds like you have no clue how to make a turbo combo work so it's good that you stick to blowers.

Different cars require different driving styles. I drive and tune both turbo cars and procharged cars. After driving both power adder types, I'll take the turbo car over anything.

There's only 1 circumstance that I pick a blower. If I had a 600ci motor and could not run twin's, blower it is.

Bob is anything but ignorant. He OWNS nitrous cars, Turbo trucks and blower cars...He's been there, done that and he seems to know what works.

To each their own, I believe each have their place...

DB can you tell me how quickly it takes you to build boost? How long do you stage? Trans temps? You still using a 'cheater' turbo or whatever their called or did you just step up to a 106 or something? I can't remember your new combo, other than sb2.

 

[DB]

Maybe Bob has split personalities. One is a great mechanic and fabricator, the other post here for him. kidding.

I'm now using a full 106mm on a 400ci and can have full boost in less than .6 of a second. I stage with a 3 step and leave at 4000-4300rpm. The blower car leaves at 4200 rpm and boost is rpm sensative. The blower car is more sensitive to rpm drop at the gear change, the turbo car can care less because it maintains full boost with even 1400 rpm drop. The blower car will out 60 foot the turbo car but it's 500lb lighter. Trans temps are higher with the turbo but not enough to make it unreliable.

They do each have their own place. I like both blower and turbo. Some of Bob's statements about turbo's simply aren't true when you know how to put a combo together with the right cam and converter.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't understand the personal attack DB so i will be the better man and ignore it. I am not as dumb as you would like to believe.

This post started about a street car build for under 4k, not your 40k power plant/ full race car.

So your car went 1.30 or so off the trans brake, now what could it do off idle, without boost? I have raced/built some fast turbo cars which need 4 rear calipers, easy stage systems, trans brakes and multiple 2 steps to get them to boost. Are you now going to tell me i'm wrong and stupid?

My question to you DB is, (your car just ran 7.7 something, which is outstanding on radials) I would like you to race it street car style like we do up here. Off idle, no trans brake, one power adder.
If you feel i am wrong and stupid we can prove this. I'll bring my dart with one power adder and race you with your one power adder. We will race off a full tree and i will give you the wiggle. After its activated you can leave off idle anytime after the first yellow and i will chase. I'm sure you will have no problem with this since turbos spool instantly.

If you guys would get off that turbos are the best without looking at its faults we could move past this.

 

[DB]

First of all, apologies for the personal attack. It wasn't meant to be that. I got the wrong impression from reading your post. I do think you were rude in some of your replies and implicated others as being stupid...moving on.

My car uses stock brakes on the front, a cheap single caliper disk on the rear. I pre-stage with a 3 step and leave off the step. The only thing different on my car than any other car at the dragstrip is the 3 step. Nothing complicated about it. If it's that difficult for you to get a turbo car to stage and run properly, yes your doing something wrong. Converter and cam is critical.

So your telling me that there is some style of racing in your area where a car has to leave off of idle. Is this a race rule or just your only way of trying to put down a turbo car? You can't even bring it up against the converter? Do they also specify what idle is....800rpm, 1200rpm??? Sounds rediculous. Maybe the rules were wrote to keep certain types of cars out.

I didn't build my car to leave from an idle. You can't do it with a small chevy with an F2 either and expect it to move out like a N20 car. Different power adders require different driving styles. Sounds like the rules were built to help out n/a or n20 cars. I could put a turbo combo together though that would spool quickly enough to leave from idle.

I have never said that the turbo is best for every application, just 90% of them, haha

 

[Anonymous]

no special rules just reality. If you race me, you run your car with a trans brake, i get the leave and you chase....I will sit there till your converter melts then i will leave, got it? by the way my little 23* 355 and d1 went 1.35 60' from a dead idle.
So you still won't agree with every turbo there is lag? Lets talk some more about turbos and lag. My Stock Typhoon runs 1.68 60' after sitting there for a minute, now off idle and no power brake it runs a 2.50 60' is that not lag? I'm really tired of this no lag/free horsepower when in fact nothing is free. Turbos are the easiest money maker out there for shops like mine because we can build them, tune them and ship them I just don't buy into this instant power stuff. Dual rear calipers? they are used for light cars that make big power, if not the car will just push thru the brakes on the first step. There are a lot of people using them if you look in the wheels. How about automatic transmissions? I have made numerous cold water trans coolers why? because you need to sit on the converter so long. and last but not least, Why won't turbo cars stage first aginst nos or blower cars?

 

[DB]

I can see this is going no where. A stock typhoon..please man. It's not designed to leave from an idle so of course it has lag. Now compare that to my friends V12 benz with twins...no lag and it's because someone used their brain when they designed it. If you want to create a situation to prove a turbo has lag, fine. Again, nobody races from an idle. Maybe in some rare case like you have created the turbo car is at a disadvantage competing against N20 or blower cars. I'd just build a larger motor with more compression so I could leave on less rpm. This is not 1994 anymore. There have been enough advances in knowledge, cam and converter design to eliminate most all lag if need be. If you don't believe this then it's a good thing you advise your customers to stick with blowers and N20.

You don't have to explain dual rear calipers. I know some guys have to use them. Most of them have a converter so tight they can't build any rpm. I guess my cheap single piston disc kit from QP is magic. I can stage the car at 3400 without pushing. I have seen these water cooled transmission coolers, it's the latest fad. As for me....I don't even have a trans cooler. If you want to be a punk and play staging games that's cool too. My MSD is wired just for those guys who know they're wooped in a fair race. I can sit on the brake at any rpm I want....1800, 2000. You only got 7 seconds in a real mans world to get the bottom bulb lit or you'll get the redeye. As soon as your in I'm back at 4200 with plenty of boost. I've went in first plenty of times, don't bother me at all. Not all drivers are as comfortable staging a turbo car as I am. Guys not used to driving a turbo car in competition can be overwhelmed in what it takes to do it right.

 

[80superbu]

I'm with ya DB, turbos are definitely the future. Sure N20 makes good power too but why the **** would anyone that races all the time want to constantly be refilling bottles. The supercharger vs turbo thing is maybe a personal preference but we all know the supercharger take much more power to run than a turbo. The turbo isn't totally free power but compared to the power drain a supercharger draws it might as well be free. Any performance shop that tried to tell me different would lose all credibility and my business. Haven't seen a turbo break off a crank snout either

 

[basketcase]

Haven't seen a turbo break off a crank snout either

You buy a cheap crank, guess what you're gonna get?

 

[CutlassRacer]

I am a turbo fan, but we have built quite a few nitrous and blower cars for people. It is as much customer preference for us anyways. Blowers and nitrous are real easy to put on a car though.

I have seen alot of people struggle with staging a turbo car, but if you look at the racers who have their game together you will see them roll right in and put it up on the launch chip. Dustin, Stack, Spiro, Futch, Wren, Shawver, etc. are all people that have their turbo staging figured out. Several of those guys had Steve Petty to their tuning.......

 

[basketcase]

I am a turbo fan, but we have built quite a few nitrous and blower cars for people. It is as much customer preference for us anyways. Blowers and nitrous are real easy to put on a car though.

I have seen alot of people struggle with staging a turbo car, but if you look at the racers who have their game together you will see them roll right in and put it up on the launch chip. Dustin, Stack, Spiro, Futch, Wren, Shawver, etc. are all people that have their turbo staging figured out. Several of those guys had Steve Petty to their tuning.......

Seen the latest video of Spiro's Camaro? He's in shallow, to build boost and pushes it through and stages...How many seconds from when he is shallow, to when he finally goes?