Tremec TKO-600 (2)

[rjleiker]

well crap...

me being the indecisive person that I am and always wanting to do the best thing... I got that itch again to try to put a T-56 in instead of the TKO-600. based on all my calculations and trying to get the shifter in the perfect position and get the best MPG and strength and fun-factor and etc..., it will actually be pretty much the same price to put an aftermarket T-56 in instead. The main deciding factor is the .50 final overdrive ratio... IF I can get this Essentials kit...
http://www.keislerauto.com/index.php?/gm-t56-6-speed-essentials-kit-for-gm-2.html
...with the .50 final OD ratio, then that is it, I'm doing it... because it will bolt up and everything just like the TKO-600 to the standard GM bolt pattern bellhousing.
Another thing, that I was really intrigued by was the shifter position. On the TKO-600, as you can see in the last page of Meat Drapes TKO-600 thread, the shifter comes up at the back and to the side of the original four speed hole. This really concerns me when it comes to me having my bench seat all the way forward. To get this shifter position, which seems like it will not interfere even though it is really close, it costs an extra 400 bucks on top of the out-of-the-box transmission. This brings the price right up in range of the T-56 Essentials kit. The optional forward shifter position on the T-56 puts the shifter right at 13.5" from the back of the bellhousing. This means that it will come up exactly the perfect distance rearward as the original 4speed hole, although it doesn't include any offset. which I am ok with.
So basically it comes down to sacrificing the offset shifter for the .50 OD ratio and about 1.5 - 2 inches of forward shifter placement. Both of these are gold in my book for this project.
Of course the T-56 is rated only at 475 HP and the TKO-600 is rated at 600 HP. But I have heard many times from all ranges of people that these transmissions are underrated anyway, so whenever I get to building a more powerful engine I shouldn't have to worry too much. Plus, I'll be running a 7.5" rear end with 2.73's and street tires for as long as I can and I'll have a stock clutch set up for a while as well...
So I figure there are many weaker components that are bound to break first long before the T-56.
I am still trying to figure out all the details of this purchase with Keisler, but hopefully everything will work out...

What do you guys think about this delima?

 

[Anonymous]

well crap...

me being the indecisive person that I am and always wanting to do the best thing... I got that itch again to try to put a T-56 in instead of the TKO-600. based on all my calculations and trying to get the shifter in the perfect position and get the best MPG and strength and fun-factor and etc..., it will actually be pretty much the same price to put an aftermarket T-56 in instead. The main deciding factor is the .50 final overdrive ratio... IF I can get this Essentials kit...
http://www.keislerauto.com/index.php?/gm-t56-6-speed-essentials-kit-for-gm-2.html
...with the .50 final OD ratio, then that is it, I'm doing it... because it will bolt up and everything just like the TKO-600 to the standard GM bolt pattern bellhousing.
Another thing, that I was really intrigued by was the shifter position. On the TKO-600, as you can see in the last page of Meat Drapes TKO-600 thread, the shifter comes up at the back and to the side of the original four speed hole. This really concerns me when it comes to me having my bench seat all the way forward. To get this shifter position, which seems like it will not interfere even though it is really close, it costs an extra 400 bucks on top of the out-of-the-box transmission. This brings the price right up in range of the T-56 Essentials kit. The optional forward shifter position on the T-56 puts the shifter right at 13.5" from the back of the bellhousing. This means that it will come up exactly the perfect distance rearward as the original 4speed hole, although it doesn't include any offset. which I am ok with.
So basically it comes down to sacrificing the offset shifter for the .50 OD ratio and about 1.5 - 2 inches of forward shifter placement. Both of these are gold in my book for this project.
Of course the T-56 is rated only at 475 HP and the TKO-600 is rated at 600 HP. But I have heard many times from all ranges of people that these transmissions are underrated anyway, so whenever I get to building a more powerful engine I shouldn't have to worry too much. Plus, I'll be running a 7.5" rear end with 2.73's and street tires for as long as I can and I'll have a stock clutch set up for a while as well...
So I figure there are many weaker components that are bound to break first long before the T-56.
I am still trying to figure out all the details of this purchase with Keisler, but hopefully everything will work out...

What do you guys think about this delima?

Not only the shifter location but in reading your post you mention you have a 2.73 rear gear, you motor will never be able to pull itself with a .50 6th gear. Your cruising rpm's will be down around 800-1000rpms at 70 mph. I don't know any cars that have a motor that pulls effectively at that low an rpm. With a Viper or T56 that has a .50 6th gear, you need to run at LEAST a 4.10 gear or drive 150mph + down the road or you will never use 6th gear.
Just something else to consider.



Richard
Tech Support

 

[rjleiker]

well right now I have basically a stock internals GM crate 350... it builds power perfectly right at or right above 1000 RPM.... but, I guess once I upgrade the new engine won't behave anything like that.
I am mainly concerned with MPG... I am trying to build this car with the ability to drive it every day and I figured the lower the OD, the more gas mileage...

 

[Anonymous]

Low mpg is what everyone is after and on paper, a .50 6th gear sounds great. In reality, your motor has to be capable of operating at that low of an rpm or it becomes useless.
In most cases, a 5 speed with a .68(T5 or TKO-500) or a .64 like the TKO-600 will bring the rpm's down significantly and increase gas mileage substantially. For instance, my mustang has a 26" tall tire and a .68 5th gear. I cruise at 2250rpm's at 70mph. MY motor starts to build decent power at 1900-2000rpm so I am right in the beginning of my "torque curve" by cruising at 2250-2300. This means I maximize gas mileage and I don't have to down shift to 4th in order to pass someone on the highway.

I'm not trying to talk you out of a T56. I am just trying to arm you with accurate information so you can make an educated decision and be happy with the final outcome. I cannot stress enough NOT to go with a T56 and a .50 6th gear UNLESS you change the 2.73's out for at least a 4.10 rear gear.

Go to our website at http://www.keislerauto.com and on the left side of the home page is a link to our speed anilyzer(sp?). You can choose the T56 Viper or any of the TKO's and input your tire size and rpm and it'll tell you cruising speed. Play around with it using different combinations of rpm's and gearing and find the one that fits your motor. This will help you make a good decision.



Richard
Tech Support

 

[rjleiker]

ugh... I hear ya... ok, I'm with ya... I'm stubborn, but I'll go...

ok, the TKO-600 will still be the one...

 

[rjleiker]

well the project officially started on Saturday... I found out I needed to buy a different starter because of the smaller flywheel than the flexplate I currently have...
Smiley's was having a sale this last weekend and so I went ahead and picked up a new one that fits both the 10.5" and 11" flywheels so even in the future I'll have the ability to interchange and even a spare...

I got the 9000 Powermaster Hi-torque mini starter for like $167 or something after tax.
We'll see how this whole thing pans out...

 

[rjleiker]

so can someone tell me something about this flywheel...

http://www.autozone.com/R,4093951/vehicleId,1237105/initialAction,partProductDetail/store,1621/partType,00906/shopping/partProductDetail.htm

... will it fit in the G-body 606 bellhousing?
Will it allow the standard 10.5" clutch to bolt to it?
Will it fit (bolt up) on a 1st generation SBC?


Also... can someone point me in the direction of a stock clutch set from AutoZone or something that is 10.5" and has a 1 1/8" 26 spline disc?

 

[Doober]

What engine are you putting in? The one you listed is for a 168-tooth, which won't fit in the stock G-Body bellhousing. Depending on a 1-pc. or 2-pc. rear main seal, here's what you'll need:

2-pc.:
http://www.autozone.com/R,3429620/vehicleId,1144205/initialAction,partProductDetail/store,2159/partType,00906/shopping/partProductDetail.htm

1-pc.:
http://www.autozone.com/R,4524847/vehicleId,1032102/initialAction,partProductDetail/store,2159/partType,00906/shopping/partProductDetail.htm

I looked for an early 80s ('85) Camaro with a 305, and a late 80s ('89) Camaro with a 305.

 

[rjleiker]

I don't want to second guess you or anything, but the flywheel is listed under the 81 Malibu... is this wrong? You all have more experience than me with this, and AZ is prone to mistakes like this... I used to work there...

I was just hopeful since it is listed as fitting both 10.5 and 11" clutches...
And I could have gotten out of buying/keeping this starter and just using my old one...

 

[Doober]

The one you listed would bolt to the crank on a 2-piece rms motor, but it wouldn't clear the bellhousing. That's why the 153-tooth is needed. I went through this ordeal when I first dropped the 3-speed in mine, it's when I first learned of the differences between the two flywheels. I had picked up the flywheel you listed first, and discovered it was too big, so I got a different bellhousing, which didn't work with the clutch fork. I had the correct sized flywheel that I already had from the junkyard (from a 2-pc. rms motor), had it resurfaced, problem solved because it was a 153-tooth flywheel. The flywheels that accept the 11-clutch are typically the 168-tooth units that don't fit inside the 606 bellhousing (and, far as I know, there aren't any 11" clutches that fit the 153-tooth units). I also believe all the '87+ (1-pc. rms) motors are externally balanced, which is why you need the different flywheel from the earlier ones.